Page 21; 343
"And you are so far off about the just and justice, and the unjust and the injustice, that you are unaware that justice and the just are really someone else's good, the advantage of the man who is stronger and rules, and a personal harm to the man who obeys and serves."
"The just man everywhere has less than the unjust man."
- If you try pursuing justice, everyone will take advantage of you. The unjust man will always rule because he will always be stronger.
Page 22; 344
"You will learn most easily of all if you turn to the most perfect injustice, which makes the one who does injustice most happy, and whose who suffer it and who would not be willing to do injustice, most wretched."
"So Socrates, injustice, when it comes into being on a sufficient scale, is mightier, freer, and more masterful than justice; and as I have said from the beginning, the just is the advantage of the stronger, and the unjust is what is profitable and advantageous for oneself."
- Socrates argument:
- He believes that justice is better than injustice.
- "What I want I take- let might take the place of reasoned argument." (Juvenal)
"Nor do I think injustice is more profitable than justice, not even if one gives it free rein and doesn't hinder in it from doing what it wants."
- Socrates talking to Glaucon…
- He wants to have an argument with Thramsymachus , with judges, and see who wins.
- "If we should speak at length against him, setting speech against speech, telling how many good things belong to being just, and then he should speak in return…"
Page 25; 347
"So I can in no way agree with Thramsymachus that the just is the advantage of the stronger. But this we shall consider again at another time."
He uses the Socratic method, which is asking questions, which eventually lead the other person to the agree with his opinion.
- Socrates argument with Thramsymachus
Page 28; 350
"Then the man who is both good and wise will not want to get the better of the like, but of the unlike and opposite?"
- The man who is playing piano is good at piano. Therefore, because he is good at piano, he is wise. And because he is wise, he is good.
"The just man is like the wise and good, but the unjust man like the bad and unlearned."
- If you are good at piano
- Prudent
- Good
- Wise/wisdom
- Virtue
- Just
- Poor at piano
- Ignorant
- Thoughtless
- Bad
- Unlearned
- Unjust
Page 30; 351
"If justice is indeed both wisdom and virtue, I believe it will easily come to light that it is also mightier than injustice, since injustice is lack of learning- no one could still be ignorant of that."
Page 31; 353
"Then the just soul and the just man will have a good life, and the unjust man a bad one."
"And the man who lives well is blessed and happy, and the man who does not is the opposite."
Book Three/Four
- Guardians: Gold (super ego)
- Led by philosophers kings
- Wisdom
- Auxiliaries: Silver (ID)
- Led by soldiers
- Courage
- Farmers and merchants: Iron and Bronze (ego)
- Led by moderation
- In the case of the guardians, the gold is the calculating/reason
- In the case of auxiliaries, the silver is the desire/irrational
- In the case of the farmers and merchants, the iron and bronze is the spirit.
Page 113; 434
"Meddling among the classes, of which there are three, and exchange with one another is the greatest harm for the city and would most correctly be called extreme evil-doing."
You always stay in the same place; you are selected to be in a certain class when you are little… The classes are arranged by music & gym.
Page 119; 439
"If we claim they are two and different from each other, naming the part of the soul with which is calculates…"
- Brahmins
- Priests
- Khasatryas
- Warriors
- Vaisyas
- Merchants/ craftsmen
- Sudras
- Farmers
- Untouchables
- Garbage men, etc.
- Dharma:
- Duty
- Responsibility
- Obligations
- Karma
- Samsara:
- Death and rebirth
- Reincarnation
- Moksha:
- Breaking the cycle of life and death
Indian CAST system:
Page 193; 514
The humans are underneath the ground in a cave, and their heads are in chains so that they can only look in one direction. There is a fire behind them, in the far back of the cave, which provides them with light. There is a road above the prisoners going through the cave, and there is a wall above them as well. Along the wall are human beings carrying a bunch of things. They are unable to turn their heads to see the people on the wall or the fire, however the first is casting off light, so the people who are in chains can see the shadows of the people on the wall. Therefore, because this is the only thing that they are exposed to for their entire life, they believe that the shadows are the actual things, and the noises that they hear are coming from the shadows.
Page 195; 517
The people in chains want to kill the man who saw the light and the real world, because he threatens everything that they know and everything that they stand for in a sense.
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